Posts by Cold Steel

18

5th Columb : We need a signal to identify each other

by Deltawave in

jw
friends

i have been thinking, it is a lonely place in the real world knowing ttatt but if we have a phrase we can unite, support and help each other.

the question we will ask is:.

what's your favorite bible verse?

Cold Steel

Oh yeah. Just wait until you're called up before the elders.

"What's the charge, brother?"

"I heard him distinctly say, 'What's your favorite bible verse?'"

"I also heard him say it."

"Me, too."

47

Did Jesus actually start a church to himself?

by TTWSYF in

with some 30,000 different christian denominations, how would one know which one was for real?

some folks think jesus did start a church, others think no.

The word for "church" is a term meaning "called out." And though Jesus respected the authority of the temple priests, there simply isn't enough recorded information to draw the conclusions that Prof. Vermes draws. What, for example, were Jesus' final instructions to the Twelve during his 40-day ministry? (Acts 1:1-2) No one knows. We have the Acts of the Apostles, some of the epistles. We see Peter standing in judgment and condemning two church members, Ananias and Sapphira; so he obviously had authority. (See Acts 5) Otherwise, why weren't the Jewish leaders the ones standing in judgment over them?

Jesus also announced that he was giving Peter the keys of the kingdom, indicating that he had them. Jesus is the one who gave Moses the law, so he was not subject to the Jewish leaders. He also appointed the apostles as judges over the Twelve Tribes. How, then, can the good professor argue that Jesus intended to incorporate his movement into Judaism? The way he appears to argue is that Jesus had expectations that were based in error, and many Christians are not willing to concede that. Also, there's absolutely no evidence that the apostles expected God to restore Israel in their day. Instead, they fully knew that the Romans would scatter Israel to the four corners of the earth and burn the temple because Jesus prophesied it.

There are traditions about what Jesus taught during the 40 days, but if we just go by what's in the New Testament, we know nothing about the 40 days. As two current scholars note:

Luke states that during the 40-day ministry the Savior spoke "of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God," but there are only vague hints in other New Testament writings as to the nature and content of these teachings.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Cold Steel

Defender: Your claim has no evidence whatsoever to support it.

Christians have varying views on this topic. As I see it, Paul put it plainly when he said, "For in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (I Corinthians 15:22)

Many take this "all" to be humans only, but since animals inherited death through Adam, I believe they will inherit life through the atonement. Jehovah's Witnesses may not buy into that line of thinking, but there's nothing in the Bible that definitively states whether animals have spirits. I think one could, through observation, conclude that if man has a spirit, then animals also have spirits.

Death comes to all, men and animals, and animals fulfill the measure of their creation. Men and animals also are intelligent, and in my theology intelligence and matter can change, but they can't be created. Being intelligent, the spirits of all men and animals, plus insects, fish and other living things all existed as spirits in premortality. They now exist as part of man's exile and will rise with him in the resurrection.

There also are numerous references to animals in the accounts of those who had near death experiences. One of the most credible (to me) described the spirit world as rich in color, vibrancy and peace. He wrote:

The towering peaks boasted splendid jagged crags and massive cliffs. A gorgeous waterfall descended from thousands of feet on high to a quiet pool below. The pool rested in a serene meadow flanked by green foliage, which progressed into a variety of colors in the bushes and trees. A mighty golden eagle soared above us. The peace was so enthralling that no one would ever want to leave.
As I looked upon the beauty, my eyes were suddenly caught by a mighty lion breaking through the bushes into the meadow. He looked directly at me. My immediate reaction was one of fear and I tensed. I looked at [my guide]. He chuckled, then turned to look at the lion. The lion began to walk right towards me until he stood exactly by my left side.
Suddenly, it was as if I heard the lion’s spirit communicating to me, in my mind. “It’s all right. Don’t be afraid. All God’s creations are safe in this kingdom.”
I felt a love being radiated from this mighty beast. Randy turned to me and said, “Go ahead. Pet him.”
The animal leaned its head to the back of my hand and rubbed its mane against it. I slowly raised my hand and began to stroke his long coarse hair. It was interesting to me that, although we were both spirits, I could still feel the hair. ... Suddenly I looked up and saw a mother deer walking across the meadow not more than twenty feet behind the lion. She had a fawn at her side. They calmly looked at the lion; the lion looked at them. There was nothing but peace between them.... I was impressed by the instant feeling of love I felt for all animal life. I knew of a certainty that God loves these creatures. It is important that we show respect for them. As another lesson had been deeply implanted in my mind, we took our leave and continued down the stone pathway stretching into the distance. (The Message, by Lance Richardson)

Of course this is evidence of nothing, but these accounts frequently refer to animals and their increased, or enhanced, intelligence in the spirit world.

What is indisputable, however, is that when you look at the body of a deceased animal, it's clear that something is missing. Call it the spirit or the animating spark, a body lacks it at death and even children can readily see that a dead body in many ways appears artificial. Thus, it depends on one's views regarding the scope of the atonement. Bottom line is that the Bible doesn't answer the question of whether animals have spirits, so the JWs can only guess. I do find it significant, however, that the Lord uses animals so much in his prophetic visions. Certainly if we can love animals, and they us, and if they are noble enough to sacrifice their own lives for us, I'd say they should qualify for a resurrection.

"Some people believe this passage teaches that during the three days his body was in the tomb, Jesus went into the spirit-world of the imprisoned lost. At that time, according to this theory, the Lord preached the gospel to those who died lost during the time of Noah’s flood." (See I Peter 3:18-20)

You're right. This doesn't refer to animals. Animals can't sin and they certainly don't need preaching to. Also, most Christians regard the resurrection as the reuniting of the body and the spirit. Man goes to the spirit world to await the resurrection. The early church father, Origen, in trying to reconstruct the teaching of the apostles, wrote, "After death, I think the saints go to Paradise, a place of learning or school of the spirits, in which everything they did on Earth will be made clear to them." He said in that environment we progress through definite steps or degrees. This also corresponds to many near death experiences, where people learn and progress through "life reviews." Our resurrection will be like Christ's resurrection. It will be a physical resurrection. "For a spirit hath not flesh and bones as you see me have."

47

Did Jesus actually start a church to himself?

by TTWSYF in

with some 30,000 different christian denominations, how would one know which one was for real?

some folks think jesus did start a church, others think no.

Cold Steel

Jesus told Peter, "upon this rock I will build my church." The Catholics believe the rock was Peter; however, in context, the rock of Israel was Christ. Jesus had also queried Peter as to his own identity, and Peter had answered under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, "Thou art the Messiah, the Son of the living God." To which the Lord replied, "Flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto thee, but my Father which is in Heaven." It was then that the Lord said, "upon this rock" he would build his church, "and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it."

The "it" here is clearly "the church." The sure knowledge Peter received was revelation from God. It's entirely likely that the church also is based upon the "rock" of revelation -- or the spiritual knowledge that comes, not through the knowledge of man but by the witness of God. Jesus additionally said, "and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it." This is frequently cited by the Catholics and others to show that the church would "prevail" through the ages and would never cease. But John talks about the church being led into the wilderness for 1260 days (years), and the scripture says it's not the church that's the subject, but the "gates of hell" that would not prevail against the church. In other words, the church is assaulting the gates of Hades, or death. These gates would resist, but they would not prevail against the church (see Matthew 16:18). The very next verse speaks of the keys of authority Peter would need.

"And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." These keys ensure the proper administration of the church so that its ordinances would apply on Heaven and on Earth.

So as I see it, if Jesus has a church, it will be like his ancient church. It will have his name, be guided by him and have his authority. It also will be built like the ancient church, with apostles, prophets, bishops, elders, priests, deacons and other offices. And it will be guided by revelation and have an open canon of scripture, just as the ancient church.

15

Did you know that Satan bump nesties with Eve.

by James Mixon in

some christians explanation for evil in the world.

i came across this "serpent seed".. it claims that cain was the offspring of eve and the talking serpent (sorry i'm lmao while.

writing this) that christians much later identified as satan.

Cold Steel

And where would these "Christians" come up with such a doctrine? I've never heard it before. Is it a modern concept or something that was found in an ancient pseudipigraphal writing? There are loads of weird doctrines and teachings out there that fall in the heresy category. It probably was designed to address the issue of how God can create evil.

51

Are Magicians Spawns of Satan the Devil?

by Cold Steel in

i was perusing the internet not long ago and came upon this series of videos by a guy calling himself xendrius.

it declares that many of today's best magicians are in league with the devil.

his claims are based on his observation that the tricks would be impossible to do unless the magicians had made unholy pacts with the devil.. so what's the take of the wtbts?

Cold Steel

I posted these before watching them all, but some of these tricks are damn good. Did you see the one where the guy pops a woman's cell phone into a bottle, then has a friend call the woman's cell phone while it's in the bottle? Evil spirits? Or was the woman a plant and using some props bought at a musician's supply shop? I would have to think on that. Hmmmmm. Occam's Razor says evil spirits. Definately.

In his concluding video, Xendrius uses a very talented mask changer to prove it was demons. But mask changing has been around for many years and I've seen some pretty bad ones (which always screw it up for the good ones). It's done through the use of silk screens that can be snapped into place in a fraction of a blink. Even cameras can't detect it. In fact, on some you can actually see the wrinkles in the silk.

Now all this doesn't mean I don't believe in evil spirits. I do. But there's a reason these things are called tricks. I've seen Kreskin do some amazing things with the power of suggestion. I also think he's a gifted reader and don't know if he's a psychic or not, but both he and Randi have million dollar offers on the table.

51

Are Magicians Spawns of Satan the Devil?

by Cold Steel in

i was perusing the internet not long ago and came upon this series of videos by a guy calling himself xendrius.

it declares that many of today's best magicians are in league with the devil.

his claims are based on his observation that the tricks would be impossible to do unless the magicians had made unholy pacts with the devil.. so what's the take of the wtbts?

Cold Steel

I'm sorry, are you saying that large commercial airliners are unable to fly without Satan's assistance?

That was a JOKE, mate!

51

Are Magicians Spawns of Satan the Devil?

by Cold Steel in

i was perusing the internet not long ago and came upon this series of videos by a guy calling himself xendrius.

it declares that many of today's best magicians are in league with the devil.

his claims are based on his observation that the tricks would be impossible to do unless the magicians had made unholy pacts with the devil.. so what's the take of the wtbts?

Cold Steel

I was perusing the Internet not long ago and came upon this series of videos by a guy calling himself Xendrius. It declares that many of today's best magicians are in league with the Devil. His claims are based on his observation that the tricks would be impossible to do unless the magicians had made unholy pacts with the Devil.

So what's the take of the WTBTS? Are JWs allowed to see magic acts? And if you sent these videos to active JWs, would they share Xendrius's views? I've known that pilots were in league with Satan for some time. I mean, I've been to the airport and seen how big the airliners are. I've seen the guys throwing all that heavy luggage into them and said to myself, "There's no way they're gonna get something that huge into the air without someone making a pact with Lucifer! No way!" I've put a lot of thought into it and those planes are absolutely too big to fly without supernatural assistance!

Also, why do the WATCHTOWER writers love to use the term "Satan the Devil"? Why don't they just use "Satan"?

Magicians and Demons, Part 1

Magicians and Demons, Part 2

4

Video about Bible "Not One Word Has Failed"

by TheWonderofYou in

just clicked on the video on demand about joshua's experiences with god.

senseless?

how i hate now when someone is killed or punished the "joshua" actor gives a clear and strong cynical grin.

Cold Steel

Hey, wait...someone told me the new STAR WARS movie was here! I've watched seven minutes of this and haven't seen one storm trooper. Still, it does look and sound like a J.J. Abrams movie. What's going on?

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Cold Steel

I'm not quite sure the JWs believe that animals will be resurrected, but most theists believe man has a spirit and many believe that animals have spirits. If true, then suffering is a temporal part of life. Because of the fall of man, suffering came into the world; and because of the atonement, Christ is able to wipe the tear from every eye. In short, there are no long term psychological effects from suffering. When Jesus, himself, suffered in the garden, he knew that his suffering would transcend the suffering of every human and animal that had lived, was living or would live on Earth. He specifically asked to have that cup removed; however, it had to be or the creation and fall would have been in vain.

Many people and animals have suffered worse than they did at death, but they survived and many led normal productive lives. As for the animals and humans who didn't survive in the flesh, they continued to survive in the spirit, as the apostle Peter noted of those who perished in the flood; for they were put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit. We'll always remember the pain, but we won't be troubled by it. I've read many near death experiences and believe this life somehow improves us. In truth, most theists believe the soul is immortal and that suffering is ultimately something designed to make us better.